Curse

Sir Cusfreak · Feb 16, 2010, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I'm looking at a new machine, here:

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/A..._Configurator/

I know It's not exactly top-o'-the-line. BUT it does seem decent for what I want, and I intend to upgrade a little (upon purchase, not later) since it's all ala carte. not a lot, but I want to go to a gig on the vidcard at least.

My questions:

1. anybody know this seller/have had experience with them? the reviews are good, but could be their cousin Eddie & his crew thats posting those, for all I know.

Also, is the 450w PSU that comes with it going to be enough once I upgrade the card? I can go higher, but if I don't need to, then I'd like to stay as low-budget as I can. (RL stores keep lookin at me funny when I ask if they take ecto.)

It seems good, from my limited experience, but what ya'll think? If you know of a better way to go for the price (around400$), I'm all ears.

I've been shopping all 'round and this is *I think* the best deal I've found.

thanks for opinions in advance

Elder III · Feb 17, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

the company is ok, I think you can buy from them without too much trepidation...

with that said, what do you want to do with this new computer? If you upgrade the video card then you will need a different power supply - that one is 420 watts and if it is the one I think it is, then it's fine for general useage but will not work for a gaming video card.

I suggest you consider building your own. You could get allot more "oomf" for your $400 and come out with an OS and a decent video card too....

Sir Cusfreak · Feb 17, 2010, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Thanks.

90% of all actions on the machine will be gaming. On the one I have right now, when someone says to me "Frames Per Second" the first thought that comes to my mind is "yep, BOTH of them."

As for building one...The last time I was fiddlin' around inside a machine, I was getting really frustrated, and about ready to scream, and a buddy of mine was all like "dude. Its a stapler, come on." and so i was all like "shut up."

No, thats a little bit of an exaggeration, tbh. I'm not an idiot, but I am somewhat (read: almost completely) ignorant and inexperienced when it comes to computer building, and my house is fully carpeted as well...I hear that's a no-no.

But what really got me looking into the ala carte site was after I looked at a bunch of kits & combos, the newegg ones, I saw they were around the $400 mark as well for every piece, and that also didnt have an OS...am I missing something? I think I'm covered on OS anyway...I plan to run XP until the aliens invade. Is that wrong?

I do appreciate the advice, and I do want more 'oomf'; so let me ask: When you mention a DIY and said 'oomf' - is that counting needing every component? or just a mobo/cpu/videocard upgrade? because I would need to upgrade everything but the case from mine...literally...and I'm not even sure my case is a keeper...it is a 2002 gateway (actually not kidding). To be fair, it's mobo/cpu/ram has been upgraded since then, but it has no more slots for nothing - and the upgrades are still ancient (2005, or 6.) I guess I could keep the HDD (maybe? its 80gig which was great in its day - and still plenty for me, I store next to nothing, but it's old and idk.)...but the cd drives are from the mid 1970s iirc. They're huge, and they seem to want vinyl.

so I'm pretty sure I'd need everything.

So unless by going with a "from the ground up" DIY I'm looking at a huge, significant advantage in graphical capabilities - OR a significant dollar saving, then I'm better off having someone who knows what they're doing building it, right? (unless i can hear the term idiot-proof assembly...)

but now you have me wondering: Is the machine I linked (with the video card upgraded to the ATI with the 1gig vram and a larger PSU) lacking in oomf? I kinda thought it was a decent setup, and might play most games ok?
If i'm wrong about that, then i don't want it.

Jumping Is Uselss · Feb 17, 2010, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Ya... I think you can forget about reusing that old gateway.

What games do you want to play? And what is your monitor's resolution? The card you listed will allow you to play most games, but not on very high settings and definitely not on a huge screen.

If you want to put later upgrades aim for a PSU with 500W.

Building a rig takes lots of patience. It is definitely dummy proof, since your place has carpets just ground yourself by touching the metal part of the case or get an anti-static wristband.

Malician · Feb 17, 2010, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Hey. It looks like you're making a pretty common mistake, which is going with the default "woo, sweet case! Good cooling! All nice stuff!" but you're ending up with a 2-cylinder engine.

How well your computer can game is basically decided by the video card, and the 4350 is about as low end as you can go.

Take a look at this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...card,2544.html Yours is way slower than the $50 recommendation!

Sir Cusfreak · Feb 17, 2010, 03:22 AM // 03:22

@Malician:
I'm actually not glitter-dazed by the shiney shiney case, tbh. I do know the card is the heart. the link I posted seems to return everything to defaults, instead of holding my individual selections; I dont blame the TL;DR, I would have too - but I had said i wanted to go up to the ATI 4650, away from the 512 vram to 1gig...its better, at least, right? the reviews i saw (even on the page you linked) said it was a vast improvement. I cant afford a great card, unfortunately.

from your link, which seems to be about the same as others I had read:
"You will not find a card that packs more punch than ATI's Radeon HD 4650 under the alluring $50 price point. With solid stock performance and an overclockable GPU, this card is an excellent starting point for our list of recommendations, and a wholly worthwhile upgrade if you're currently stuck using a motherboard limited to integrated graphics."

now when you said 2cyl engine, are you saying the CPU or Mobo is bad? or just the other card?

in any case, ty for the link, I appreciate the help.

@ jumping:

My monitor is fairly decent but not anything to write home about, its a 20" flatscreen acer, a 2009 model. Its fine for my needs. a huge upgrade from my old one, anyway.

I'm looking to be able to play a few games; Crysis, Battlefield, L4d2, DA:O, maybe boarderlands, and i sure hope GW2.

The 500w PSU isnt a problem, I think I'm going with that.

thanks guys.

I think I've just about sold myself on this one, tbh.

i appreciate the input very much and thanks for clearing up the PSU question.

Kapral · Feb 17, 2010, 03:23 AM // 03:23

ibuypower is a good site where you can configure a computer to your needs, they build it and ship it to you.

Elder III · Feb 17, 2010, 03:29 AM // 03:29

the hd4650 won't handle Crysis, but it will do just fine with all the other games you mentioned. You should be able to run that on the original power supply too. I wouldn't worry too much about 1gb either - unless you play at hgiher resolutions it won't give you any real benefit (and you had best not aim for higher resolutions with a budget gaming card).

XP is fine, as long as you have a copy and the COA/key around you should be able to activate it in 5-6 minutes over the phone.

Sir Cusfreak · Feb 17, 2010, 05:17 AM // 05:17

I think i can swing the ATI 5450...and if I did that, could I go 512 vram or need 1gig? and then what PSU? the 500w still cover me? I think i'm getting lost here.

I know that whatever I get is going to make what ive been using look like a friggin abacus...but I still want to get the best I can.

SO - just for fun, lets say you had $450 exactly (including shipping) and want a graphically decent machine.
what do you get?
it can be DIY or bought whole, but if DIY it needs to be the whole nine. (I've gotten an offer of help with assembly since earlier posts, so its an option)

anyone willing to show me the error of my ways?

ty in advance

and yes i know it wont buy anything super-spectacular, but what's the best it will get?

Malician · Feb 17, 2010, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

I think i can swing the ATI 5450...and if I did that, could I go 512 vram or need 1gig? and then what PSU? the 500w still cover me? I think i'm getting lost here.

I know that whatever I get is going to make what ive been using look like a friggin abacus...but I still want to get the best I can.

SO - just for fun, lets say you had $450 exactly (including shipping) and want a graphically decent machine.
what do you get?
it can be DIY or bought whole, but if DIY it needs to be the whole nine. (I've gotten an offer of help with assembly since earlier posts, so its an option)

anyone willing to show me the error of my ways?

ty in advance

and yes i know it wont buy anything super-spectacular, but what's the best it will get?

The 5450 is very slow. It's the newest generation but you're paying for features, not performance.

If it were me (with that budget), I'd spend quite a bit of time and energy to piece together a really sweet deal, mostly off stuff on slickdeals.net.

You could try something like this: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch...iteria=SA02230

DVD drive ~20, HD ~40, monitor ~80 or less.

Spend the rest of the money on a comparatively monster graphics card:
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1856805

If you don't have access to a cheap legal copy of an MS OS (like through the recent student sale on win7), you're definitely better off buying from a manufacturer due to the insane cost of a Windows license. It'll simply eat a quarter of your build right off the bat otherwise.

That said, anything that gets you a working machine is better than nothing. Having a DDR3-based machine with a new mobo architecture would make for better upgradability, but even so you can throw in a $75 video card a year down the road for a HUGE upgrade. Unless the PSU is total junk (only able to output 200 watts or so) it'll take any video card you can afford to put in it.

Elder III · Feb 17, 2010, 11:47 AM // 11:47

if you can wait until tomorrow I'll put a parts list together for you = under $450, no OS, monitor, keyboard, mouse or speakers.

rb.widow · Feb 17, 2010, 12:35 PM // 12:35

A quick google search of cyberpowerpc reviews would have gotten your answer

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7586_102...hreadID=281026

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/...rpc-experience

http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...om-c39072.html

http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...c-c139994.html

There are others on other sites who are stating stay away from them.

Quaker · Feb 17, 2010, 04:55 PM // 16:55

My only comment - I don't quite see the need for water cooling with that processor, unless you intend to seriously overclock it. If you are, you may be better of using stock cooling on a better cpu to get the same result.

Sir Cusfreak · Feb 18, 2010, 07:12 PM // 19:12

SO my quest for the Grail continues.

I’ve done more research in the past few days than I have in all the time since I went to that college place. It’s a zoo out there for this stuff. I’ve been shopping for deals and comparing products and reading reviews for everything. My gaming and forum time has really suffered

I’ve been using the kit and graphics card that Malician posted (thanks) as a basis, and it doesn’t seem like a bad foundation to me at all, especially for that cost. I am still very open to further suggestions though. (I priced all components separately and it’s about 35 dollars cheaper than their total.)

In any case, I still have a couple of questions that I’m not sure how to find the answers to. Like:

Will PSU ‘x’ fit into case ‘y’? Now before I get the ‘Google it’ treatment…I did. And I found the dimensions of the case. AND I found the dimensions of the PSU I’m looking to upgrade to. Guess what? It fits with PLENTY of room into that empty case.

But since I don’t know the dimensions of everything else I’m going to cram in there, or even completely how it will all Tetris together…yes Tetris is a verb…I don’t know if it will fit where I need it to go. And I’m not sure where that info is.

Also: I am assuming that the motherboard includes whatever type of NIC I’ll need in this thing. Right? I haven’t seen any mention of needing a separate one…I looked at the description but if it’s there it’s one of the arcane numbers I don’t know what mean.

On a side note: typing “Where does this piece go?” into Google led me off on a tangent…funny but not as productive as I’d hoped.

What I have so far: (input VERY welcome)

Basis: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch...iteria=SA02230 as posted above. (There is an Intel version of this as well, same price, but I can’t tell if it’s any better or not, they seem pretty equal to me.)
GPU: HD 5770. looks like it should play most anything. I’m not gaming in HighDef, and there’s a difference in ‘playable’ and max settings, imo. The clown that’s so interested in the texturing of that tree is what I like to call ‘an easy frag’ – as long as I can move freely and have a decent amount of fps.

HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136075 (five bucks more than the cheapest I could find and is faster, runs cooler, and much bigger)
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817339012 I’m guessing the 480w that comes in the kit won’t cut it. Correct me if I’m wrong.
DVD/CD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827118030 – this thing will get very little use once the OS is loaded. Aside from loading in games it’s a paperweight, so cheap is good.

now I'm at total cost $385.00, but I still need cooling, right? this part I have no idea about. at least PSU's are roughly the same box shape. I saw so many fans and heatsinks...different sizes, shapes, functions...what fits, what doesnt? what do I need and what's overkill? can I just forget the case and set it all under my celing fan?

Like I said, I only care about graphic capability. This case could have a lid-top and say ‘Reebok’ on the side of it if the things fit inside and make games happen on my screen.

let me know what you guys think.

thanks.

Quaker · Feb 18, 2010, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

Will PSU ‘x’ fit into case ‘y’?

If the case is a standard ATX case, it will. The only problems arise with non-standard cases, such as small form factor (SFF) and some larger than normal 1000watt or more PSs. A normal desktop case takes a normal power supply. The case you linked should have no problem.

Quote:

Also: I am assuming that the motherboard includes whatever type of NIC I’ll need in this thing.

Almost all motherboards come with 1 or 2 on-board LAN adapters. (Same thing as a NIC) The motherboard in the link has on-board LAN.

Quote:

HD: 160Gig WD

I would spend the extra $30 for the 500gig.

Quote:

PSU:I’m guessing the 480w that comes in the kit won’t cut it.

The 480 watt should be fine with the components you have selected. The only reason to go bigger would be if you wanted a better video card (or for future upgrades). At any rate, I don't think that that cheap off-brand one you linked would be worth the upgrade. (I don't recognize the brand, and I doubt you can get a good 585watt PS that cheap - more likely, it's a PoS.)

Quote:

now I'm at total cost $385.00, but I still need cooling, right?

Wrong. Unless you plan to overclock it, the stock fans for the cpu and gpu (video) should do fine. The only thing you might need would be an additional case fan if the inside of the case gets too warm - which isn't likely - and you can always get a cheap $10 case fan later if it does. (Plus you may want to wait to see what size case fan the case can accept.)

Zarion Silverarrow · Feb 18, 2010, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapral

ibuypower is a good site where you can configure a computer to your needs, they build it and ship it to you.

This.Mine was not bought at ibuypower.com or whatever,it was at newegg but it was an ibupower.No problems so far,had it for about 9 months

Malician · Feb 19, 2010, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

SO my quest for the Grail continues.

I’ve done more research in the past few days than I have in all the time since I went to that college place. It’s a zoo out there for this stuff. I’ve been shopping for deals and comparing products and reading reviews for everything. My gaming and forum time has really suffered

I’ve been using the kit and graphics card that Malician posted (thanks) as a basis, and it doesn’t seem like a bad foundation to me at all, especially for that cost. I am still very open to further suggestions though. (I priced all components separately and it’s about 35 dollars cheaper than their total.)

In any case, I still have a couple of questions that I’m not sure how to find the answers to. Like:

Will PSU ‘x’ fit into case ‘y’? Now before I get the ‘Google it’ treatment…I did. And I found the dimensions of the case. AND I found the dimensions of the PSU I’m looking to upgrade to. Guess what? It fits with PLENTY of room into that empty case.

But since I don’t know the dimensions of everything else I’m going to cram in there, or even completely how it will all Tetris together…yes Tetris is a verb…I don’t know if it will fit where I need it to go. And I’m not sure where that info is.

Also: I am assuming that the motherboard includes whatever type of NIC I’ll need in this thing. Right? I haven’t seen any mention of needing a separate one…I looked at the description but if it’s there it’s one of the arcane numbers I don’t know what mean.

On a side note: typing “Where does this piece go?” into Google led me off on a tangent…funny but not as productive as I’d hoped.

What I have so far: (input VERY welcome)

Basis: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch...iteria=SA02230 as posted above. (There is an Intel version of this as well, same price, but I can’t tell if it’s any better or not, they seem pretty equal to me.)
GPU: HD 5770. looks like it should play most anything. I’m not gaming in HighDef, and there’s a difference in ‘playable’ and max settings, imo. The clown that’s so interested in the texturing of that tree is what I like to call ‘an easy frag’ – as long as I can move freely and have a decent amount of fps.

HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136075 (five bucks more than the cheapest I could find and is faster, runs cooler, and much bigger)
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817339012 I’m guessing the 480w that comes in the kit won’t cut it. Correct me if I’m wrong.
DVD/CD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827118030 – this thing will get very little use once the OS is loaded. Aside from loading in games it’s a paperweight, so cheap is good.

now I'm at total cost $385.00, but I still need cooling, right? this part I have no idea about. at least PSU's are roughly the same box shape. I saw so many fans and heatsinks...different sizes, shapes, functions...what fits, what doesnt? what do I need and what's overkill? can I just forget the case and set it all under my celing fan?

Like I said, I only care about graphic capability. This case could have a lid-top and say ‘Reebok’ on the side of it if the things fit inside and make games happen on my screen.

let me know what you guys think.

thanks.

The 5770 has a TDP (maximum power it'll use) of 108 watts (it will use less the vast majority of the time). The CPU will add.. 65 watt TDP, and you can figure 40-50 watts for mobostuff. 10-20 watts for each drive you have connected.

CPU/GPU/alldrives run off the 12 volt rail, so you'd have to look at the 12v1 and 12v2 ratings of the PSU (usually printed on it) to see. Add em' up (say 15 + 15 = 30) and multiply by 12 and you get what they're REALLY claiming the PSU can supply. If it's 300 watts or more it supposedly has plenty of headroom to add more drives and such.

I ran an overclocked, overvolted 3 ghz Core 2 Duo + 9600 GT + 4 drives off 230 watts or so 12v.

summary = if it can really supply even around half its rated wattage you're fine. (Not claiming whatever PSU they're supplying can, but I'd try it first).

re: hi-def gaming, all modern computer display resolutions are HD. a 5770 will basically do whatever you want it to do at this point with such a low resolution display. You could easily hook your computer up to a 50" 1080p HDTV and play most things on max.

Elder III · Feb 19, 2010, 12:20 AM // 00:20

ok, I want to give you full accolades for being willing to delve into the world of computer building. However, your parts list needs some work. With that said, I will post what I would personally buy if I were you - and I guarantee that it will be compatible and do all that you want to and more.... and will have far better quality parts than your list.

Case: I have bought a couple of these and have been extremely impressed with the quality and features... better than many more expensive cases:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119161

Memory: Plenty for XP and easy to upgrade in the future. I've always been happy with Corsair too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145239

PSU & Optical Drive Combo: I use OCZ power supplies in both of my personal desktop computers and they are excellent imo. Nothing wrong with LG either.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.328936

Mobo, CPU, GPU combo: Triple Core CPU, CrossfireX capable mobo with lots of features and a sweet 5770 by a great company = win win win win win.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.324124

There you go a sweet computer that will handle anything you throw at it and is also very upgrade friendly for the future. Total Price after rebates = $447.93 (free shipping too). I would buy this in a flash if I were you. XD

Sir Cusfreak · Feb 19, 2010, 03:04 AM // 03:04

well, that made me sit back in my chair. A very sincere thank you for that post.

I'd also like to thank everyone else for taking the time to assist, as well.

I'm rather looking forward to my first build.

Malician · Feb 19, 2010, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

well, that made me sit back in my chair. A very sincere thank you for that post.

I'd also like to thank everyone else for taking the time to assist, as well.

I'm rather looking forward to my first build.

agreed; def. go with his